Ok... I've been as patient as I possibly could be.

Some might remember, but I picked up 3 bp's about a month ago. 2 babies, a boy and a girl; and a sub-adult male. I got the babies on the 20th of May, and the adult on the 21st.

Out of the 3, only the baby girl has eaten. She's had 3 small hoppers over a 3 week span. She is a very good eater. I can feed her in the day or night with no issues.

The baby boy hasn't even had his first meal yet. I'm worried about him. I've tried pinkies, and hoppers, dead, alive, but he's just not interested in eating. I have him in a shoebox style rubbermaid container, clear sides, and a white lid. Holes in the lid. Heating isn't an issue as it gets relatively hot here now, and I'm misting the box every couple of days. He has a small "half-log" hide and a water dish. He has the exact same set up as the female (she's in her own box). This is what troubles me, as both are in identical conditions yet the female is the only one eating. I've tried night time feeding, day time feeding to no avail. I dont even handle him anymore cuz I dont want to do anything that would cause stress.

The adult male hasn't eaten since I got him either, and does not seem interested half the time. I've seen him sneak up on small and medium sized rats with his neck cocked back, but when he gets real close, the rat starts sniffing the snake's head and he backs off. Again, same deal, tried night and day time feeding.. tried dead and live, small rats, and adult mice... nothing. Right now he's in a 30 gallon, long aquarium, with a cage lid, infrared heat lamp, and a Under Tank Heater. Bark for the substrate, good sized hide, water dish, rocks, fake trees, and a long for climbing. Sounds like IDEAL conditions, and I made it as natural looking as possible. I keep the humidity in the mid-50's as well.

I'm running out of ideas peoples.. I am starting to think more and more to take him to the local herp store and letting them try to feed them.

Any help would be appreciated!!!!! PLEASE!!!

-John

Hi there

Sorry to hear about your concerns, however, I wouldn't be particularly worried just yet, especially regarding the sub-adult. Royal pythons are known for being fussy feeders - one of our adult male goes without food for at least half the year and this year went for over 8 months without eating. Males are more renowned for it, and will regularly go off food during winter and for breeding. Give the sub-adult time and he should eventually eat.,

Re. the younger male - how old are the babies? Again, a month is not such a long time for a royal to not feed, and if he is active and responsive then that is a positive sign., is he weeing? - if so, he is drinking and this is crucial. You can buy products such as avipro and probiotics, which you put in the water and boost the digestive system and can help get a feeding response.

If you have weighing scales it would be good to get their weights and keep an eye on them,. if the snake is losing weight quickly then you have cause for concern, but if not then I would put it down to the typical male ball python feeding.

With the baby it might be a good idea to take him to a vet for a check up - there is the chance of parasites and only a vet can confirm and treat this. It might also be an idea to take the female too, even though she is eating.

I wonder - are your royals WC, CB or CF? WC and CF can be particularly bad feeders, and have a higher risk of parasites and infection.

There are a couple of things you can try, such as pretend brumation, whereby you lower the temps for a few weeks to induce a brumating response and then put them up again to show the snake it is spring and time to feed, this can work sometimes. However, the snake needs to be of optimum health and weight before you try this, so not such a good idea with the babies.

Leave the live food alone for now - by the sounds of it the live feeders are just spooking the adult male. Do you know what they were feeding on before they came to you? - try and keep feeding the same for now, if you can find out what they were eating and when. Also, when are you feeding them and how long are you trying them for - i.e. have you tried leaving a dead rat/mouse (brained if necessary), in the enclosure overnight - this often gets the snake eating as they can be disturbed by light and noise very easily.

One more thing to remember is - the snakes have had a big change, and need time to settle in to their new environments. It is often a good thing to leave the snake alone for a week after getting it before feeding, as the change can disrupt feeding. Good luck, I hope this has been of some help.

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Sounds like a good idea, i might try that with the baby, as well as with the adult.

As far as I know they are all captive bred. I got them all from pretty respectable breeders, so I don't have much reason to think that they are anything else.


Tried the overnight with a dead rat technique as well. No response from the snake whatsoever.

Yeah, I dont even handle the 2 males anymore. I just let them be. The sides of the sub-adult's cage where covered with newspaper to try and cut down on the visual distractions... but I'll try the avipro thing.. thanks

Sounds like your enclosure is right on. Have the temperatures handy?
My adult female has not eaten in over a year at this point and although it is natural to worry a bit, she is fine. You might want to put the ball python in a smaller and darker enclosure with a brained rodent over night. Poke a hole on the head and squeeze alittle bit of the brain and fluid out. This has worked for me many times. Also you can scent a rat with gerbil bedding. I would try feeding this ball every other week as to not stress the animal out.
-jason

I read once of a technique where you put the snake in a feeding box where all four sides are covered with black paper,and put the snake inside with a dead mouse or rat.
It worked with a snake who wouldn't eat in any other enclosure!Because of the black paper around the walls,she felt save enough to eat!

I've also used paper bags in much the same way as Jacky's suggestion. Just leave the f/t food overnight undisturbed. Keep monitoring their weight as well, if weight loss accelerates a vet visit is a must.

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Temps range from low 80's at night, high 80's during the day. I can't seem to think the enclosure is the problem... unless......

the substrate in the tank is the same substrate I used for my Blood Python when I had her. Although I've never heard of a snake not eating because a previous snake was the former inhabitant of the tank (by two solid weeks). The blood python was a perfect eater... live/dead didn't matter.. and she was way more intolerant of poor climate conditions.

But I will try braining the next meal attempt (for both males) before I try any appetite inducers.

They dont sell Avipro here, but I have seen some Nature Zone Essential Probiotics with Spirulina. I dont know if that is the same stuff. They also have Mardel's Herpcare Electrolyte Appettite Stimulant. Anybody have any experience with these products?

i talked to some herp guys today about probiotics and they said that they usually don't work for bp's because in order for them to fully benefit from the supplement, they need to be injected with it (thru the mouth which might cause even more stress). Just putting a certain dosage in their drinking water won't be effective enough. =( They said that the best thing to do is wait it out a week or two more and introduce a mouse/rat that has been brained.

I'm not squeamish but it just seems wrong to me to open up a rat's head and squeeze out its brains.

How do you go about doing this anyways???? won't the skull be tough to cut through?????? ooh man...

I'd change the substrate either way, even if it has nothing to do with the lack of appetite. Some snakes can carry pathogens which are harmless to them but can be harmful to other snakes. (As a rule, don't transfer any used items from one enclosure to another without first washing them completely.) I have a separate set of "pooper-scoopers" for each enclosure.

As for the feeding problems; I've just found a trick that works for baby GTPs who don't want to eat and I thought I'd try it with my BP sometime if he ever gave me any more trouble. Get some fine down feathers from a bird (pet stores have them all around the bottom of the bird cage.) Stick a feather in the mouse's mouth, warm up the mouse and wiggle it in front of the snake. If you have to, tickle the snake's body a bit with it: you want the snake's tongue to flick around the feather... that seemed to excite the GTPs enough to snap the mouse up! (I'm not sure if it's just because baby birds are on the natural menu of young GTPs; but it can't hurt to try!)
Do you have a temp gun? I usually have to heat the mouse/rat up to 100F for my BP to show any interest at all.
Also, darkness and lack of distraction seem to be critical to get my BP to eat (not too much moving around or music).
I always take Monty out at least a half hour early to a separate feeding container with his hide box and leave him in the dark with the defrosting rat next to the feeding box. When the rat is defrosted, I heat it up to 100F with a blow dryer (also right next to the feeding box, so he can sense the heat and smell the rat warming up.) (Again keep the room as dark as possible, but enough so you can see what you're doing!) Then I offer it to him with feeding tongs. He usually snaps it right out of the tongs before I get it halfway in the box!

Good luck, keep us posted.

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Andrea

Ok, quick update.

The baby male was looking DEATHLY thin and required some immediate attention.. no more waiting for him to "settle down". Bought 2 pinkies (good size for a first meal), bought a pair of tongs, and took him to my friend's place. i grabbed the baby by the head and placed a spoon by the entrance of his mouth.. his mouth opened right away. My friend took a pinkie and put it in his mouth, not far in, not even down his throat, just in his mouth. we then gently put him in his container and waited. about 20 seconds later he just started swallowing it. I was SOOOO relieved. when he downed that one, we did it again with the second pinkie, and he swallowed it even faster. ... so just shy of "force feeding" (no tubes or syringes involved here), we might have just saved his life by getting him to swallow the food himself. So i'll be watching him in the next few days to make sure he improves.

The het is still not eating, but he's a lot older so i'm not too worried yet.