THe keeper then decides what Will Happen, Not what is okay. What is okay with an animal, is up to then, And many animals are more than happy to show you, be it improper eating, favoring one side of the tank, with certain species, like green anoles and green tree frogs, there colors will become duller, many changing to brown and staying that way, as for the "levels" of the tank, i beleive thats the only reason the tank seemed to work, was because at different levels he had different temps and humidity levels. I did'nt build the tank, and don't know all the specifics.
Oh and by the way, As for disregarding everyone's advice given to me on this forum, i now have a 29 gallon tank, instead of a 20 tall, so I have the room to keep the animals I get happy, and won't be mixing species, which I probaly would'nt of done anyway. I Do appreciate the advice given by some of the more Knowlegable members, Valid points, If I beleived all the caresheets out there, i wouldnt be sure if the right temperature was 70-80, 75-85, or 80-90, I have seen all of these listed on caresheets for green Anoles, not to mention about three caresheets, that said they would be compatible with green tree frogs, so, i like to ask here, because, hopefully, I get people responding from experience. So, no offense, but if you can't offer constructive critisism, don't bother. Fire, i appreciate your honest answer, I disagree with alot of it, but appreciate it, Is that not better than simply saying,

"I don't think I can really reply to this statement and keep with the HCN friendly attitude...."

Because that does not help me, or whatever animals I end up deciding on one bit.

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"Nobody can do Everything, but Everybody can do Something."

I put it that way because I thought that there should be a response other than JBWise that wasn't in agreement with you, but knew that if I had said what I was thinking that it would escalate. That was my intent, to try and show you that more than one one person thought it was a bad idea, but without having to go in and "put you down" for having it.

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I suppose that is a bit understandable, but it is much more helpful to hear about why it won't work, Telling somebody something WILL NOT work rarely changes any minds, no matter who you, or they, are. it must be explained, shown, or learned. This forum is here so people can receive help for there reptiles. I appreciate the feedback I get, and do listen to quite a bit of it. I am a very hardheaded person, i have no problem admitting it, and when pushed, i push back, sometimes I take it farther than pushing. I am who I am, And I don't appoligize for being who I am. As for the animals I keep, i do what I can for them, If I had it my way, they would all have cages the size of a room, and everything would be set up perfectly, they would feed naturaly, interact with there environment on there own terms, live better than they could in the wild, but thats not quite possible, at Least not anytime soon, When it comes down to it, All of these Animals, that any of us keep in an enclosure are in a "false environment", I have no idea about your ability to "competently provide a stable environment" and i'm not going to judge it based on what iv'e seen here, because that is something you can only tell by looking at the animals themselves, and yours are probaly plenty happy enough, and All things considered, all of mine are happier with me then with many of the other pet owners they could be put with, for instance, The other schneider skink in the tank when I bought mine, Last I heard was living in a 10 gallon tank as his permanant residence, I know someone who keeps ball pythons in a 20 long (i personally think snakes should have the space to completely lay out in all directions and not touch glass) Or maybe the kids that's parents buy them anoles as a pet that all last about 2 months because they don't adeqeutly provide for them, So lets try to not be so fast to judge, when you have never seen my animals, or there enclosure's, and have no way of knowiing if They are in a stable environment.

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"Nobody can do Everything, but Everybody can do Something."

if you want to see how well I take care of my animals then just check out Liz's Post about the frogs... A Rare Sight - The Whole Creepy Crew

5 of the 6 used to be mine. but when I had to make an emergency move I had to make the choice to re-home them. as much as I miss my hoppers I HAD to make the difficult choice and do what was BEST for them rather than what I wanted to do... I am just lucky that I still get to see how they are doing all the time, and one of these days I will make the hike up to Liz's place so I can hold my Greenie again!

I understand the whole concept of this being a learning environment. But like you said, you are hard headed and I think most of us knew that LONG before this part of the conversation came up. so can you really blame me if after days of us trying to tell you that the 10 gal with the tank topper wouldn't work for frogs or anoles, and you fighting us every step of the way insisting that you would make it work, if I didn't feel like having to try and get into it with you about this, when I really didn't think you would listen?

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Cool Frogs, look well fed. I seem to see alot of pictures of overweight White's tree frogs, this site has proven to me not everyone overfeeds them.
and No, i don't blame you for not wanting to get in on it, its just the old, if you don't have anything useful to say, don't say anything at all idea, which was wha I thought of that first post, I do appreciate the full post though after that, which was helpful, as much as I disagree with much of it. so thank you. whenever (ifever) i get a digital camera i''ll have to post pictures of all the critters at my home. (I guess I could tell myself its not for me it's for my pets wellbeing, haha)

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"Nobody can do Everything, but Everybody can do Something."

I think the key is, I tend to notice you have a tank and you try to make it work with whatever animal you want to get. And really, one should figure out the animal they want to get, and THEN figure out the proper enclosure.

I mean, lets say you want a chinese water dragon. You would do the research and make a decision on if you could fit a 4 x 2 x 6 enclosure in your place. I want a chinese water dragon but I know I don't have space, so I don't get one. I dont try to make it work in something that is sub-par or barely big enough. I go by the more space the better. Whites like 10 gallons per frog, hence why I will have no more than 6 in my 90 gallon.

We then try to advise you on this, and get nothing but "I saw another person do this and the animal looked fine." As frustrated as you are with our answers, we are equally as frustrated, since we feel like we are hitting our head against a brick wall. I mean, why come asking questions, if what we are saying is not what you want to hear, and you won't do it anyway. Now you HAVE done it, but not without ample frustration.

When I look for advice, I usually take it, instead of making up excuses as to why the way I want to do it is correct.

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My name is Liz
Do what's best for the animal, not what's best for you.

Liz, you said exactly what I wanted to! Excellent way of putting it.

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Once you turn Mac, you never look back.

“The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.” -- Ayn Rand

At first this was, What can I house comfortably in a ten gallon tank? answer, green tree frogs. or maybe green anoles. Then I added more space, and wanted to make it work, so long as the animals would be okay in it. It was not going how I (well really how they) needed it to, and I listened to the advice from people on this site and got a 29 gallon tank. When I got the tank I was planning on going with tree frogs, or anoles, but decided, wait before I start buying things, let me make sure I know THE animal I want for the tank. the one thing you all seem to be overlooking, is I still have not bought one animal for any of these tanks yet, And I have taken alot of advice. However I was told something I know is possible (even if not possible within my resources) was impossible, so, I argued that point. I appreciate any advice I get from people, but when I ask a question, i'm looking for a bit of an explanation, i dont just beleive everything I hear. And the answer to why I ask these questions, and then argue about it, is because alot of you seem to really know what your doing, and talking about, but there are also many people just repeating something they read online, so if one, or even two people tell me something would not work, but i've read, or seen other places it did, i'm not going to blindly follow what i'm told here, now, when I have 6+ people, especialy those talking from years of experience telling me it won't work, and good reasons why, then it makes sense to me, and dos'nt seem as good of an idea. But if I were to listen to everthing I read on the internet, i might think its okay to put over four anoles in a ten gallon tank (read that on some caresheet), or that Green Tree Frogs life expectancy is 3-4 years (Does'nt sound near right to me) So, Im not going to beleive just anything I read online. When it comes down to it, Im here to get information about reptile's, specifically any reptiles I have, or may have, If I ruffle a few feathers, it is what it is, im not here to be everyone's buddy, im not trying to make enemies either, but i'm here to find out what I need to keep my animals happy. And I've gone along with alot of what i've been told here, yeah, maybe it takes some time, but when I get the same answer from enough people, i tend to listen a bit more. So now I have a 29 that I bought to house tree frogs, or Green anoles, knowing I could do either, now before I start setting up an enclosure I want to decide for sure what animal I am going to house there, and create a habitat accordingly. I suppose I could just go out, buy something that looks cool, and then run around after I find out it'll need more space, and needs this and that, but frankly, I'm not going to do it that way. By finding a enclosure size, and then finding an animal that would be happy in it that I would want to take care of (and remember, way back when when I started this, i said I was looking for something that would be happy in a certain size tank, Not okay, happy) I can ensure I am able to house this animal, and afford what I would need for it, rather than getting the animal first.

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"Nobody can do Everything, but Everybody can do Something."

OK, now that all the explanations have been exchanged, I think we can draw a line under this discussion...

The point of the forum first and foremost is to exchange information to provide the BEST care possible for the animals in our care.

Let us know what you decide to house in the 29 gallon, Ryan.

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Andrea

Indeed. This is going way off into an area that could get rather sticky rather quickly.
And I hate sticky!
Just one thing to remember. If a person gives you the advice you ask for and you essentially chose to ignore that advice for whatever reason, they may not be as willing to try to help you out the next time.
Nuff said!
This discussion is closed

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Merlin,
What's Life Without A Little Magic!